... well, from the link... "Noms is supported on Mac OS X and Linux. You can compile a Windows build from source, and it usually works, but isn't officially supported."
Also, supporting Windows is often a pain in the ass compared to Linux/Mac. I don't fault them for not supporting it officially, especially in the project's life.
To be fair, Mac support is also a huge pain, unless you happen to have a Mac.
Just getting a machine to test on is expensive. If you look for Mac OS VMs in the cloud, you find they start at $1 an hour (https://www.macincloud.com/) or around $80 / month (http://xcloud.me/pricing-signup/). Compare that to around $5 / month for a Linux VM.
And then you have to go the whole dance of getting xcode and homebrew just to have a development environment. It's been a few years since I used Mac OS X to develop stuff, but it wasn't intuitive at all back then.
Mac hosting doesn't tend to be VMs largely because of Apple's licensing rules for macOS (which is a big hassle, no question) so they'll naturally be more expensive than a $5 virtualized Linux VM.
But Macincloud has ~$20/month plans (with 8GB of RAM which isn't a $5 option for most Linux or Windows VMs) and there are several others going for between $30-50, so you hardly have to go with $80/month.
Use, because they have to. This being said they usually develop more in one than the others. I have not met until now anyone who was equally proficient in developping software across all platforms/environments.
OS X is treated as a single category, but Windows is split over multiple versions. When you add up all the Windows versions, OS X isn't close to 50% market share.
Also, I'd question why it should be 'hopefully' correct. Other than better support for Unix command line tools, what gives OS X the edge over Windows 10 as a dev environment?
OS X is treated as a single category, but Windows is split over multiple versions. When you add up all the Windows versions, OS X isn't close to 50% market share.
What was claimed is that most developers don't use Windows, not that they use macOS. If over 50% of developer use either macOS or Linux, then the claim is true.
26.2% + 21.7% = 47.9%. So based on that survey the statement that most devs don't use Windows anymore is incorrect.
Also, that doesn't answer my other question. Other than better support for Unix command line tools, what makes OS X (or Linux) a better platform for devs than Windows 10?
> Other than better support for Unix command line tools, what makes OS X (or Linux) a better platform for devs than Windows 10?
Some that come to mind: Granular packaging systems with everything developer under the sun in them (including binary and source packages). Better support and easier install of a vast array of developer tools and languages (just one example: git). Much more automatable (eg not every install on windows can be automated. Many require GUI interaction). Containerizable. More powerful filesystems like layered filesystems or content addresses filesystems like ZFS. Cloud orchestration tools work better (puppet, chef, ansible). Tiling window managers to streamline screen work. Much wider choice of code editing environments and code manipulation tools (Windows is much more centric around the offerings of Microsoft). Better interoperation with other tools and filesystems (Linux plays much nicer with windows than windows plays with linux). Less bugs in the APIs and development systems themselves (a result of open source enabling bugfixing independent of a vendor). Better system debug and development tools (eg. strace/dtrace/ktrace). Almost every dev tool included in the distributions (no need to go download some dodgy .exe of tucows or where ever). More example open source code to reference and work with makes coding similar ideas less error prone.
> "Granular packaging systems with everything developer under the sun in them (including binary and source packages)."
Yes, that's true.
> "Better support and easier install of a vast array of developer tools and languages (just one example: git)."
This falls under Unix command line tools for me, but okay.
> "Much more automatable (eg not every install on windows can be automated. Many require GUI interaction)."
This is really just the same point as the package management one you already mentioned.
> "Containerizable."
Windows Server now has native support for Docker.
> "More powerful filesystems like layered filesystems or content addresses filesystems like ZFS."
Linux's support for ZFS isn't exactly a strong point. Perhaps you had OS X in mind? In any case NTFS is a fairly decent file system, I don't really see it as a weak point for Windows.
> "Cloud orchestration tools work better (puppet, chef, ansible)."
Automating Windows configuration is easily done through PowerShell. I know that Chef and Ansible both use PowerShell to get their Windows support. I'd suggest taking a look at Desired State Configuration if you're unfamiliar with how these tools utilise the existing infrastructure on Windows.
> "Tiling window managers to streamline screen work."
In my experience, tiling window managers are nice if you've got a keyboard-heavy workflow, but not that much more efficient when you switching around GUI apps. Windows has some basic tiling windows shortcuts built in, plus it now has virtual desktops built in and shortcuts to switch between them, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on much.
> "Much wider choice of code editing environments and code manipulation tools (Windows is much more centric around the offerings of Microsoft)."
Which code editing environments are you thinking of that you like that aren't also available on Windows? As for the MS tools, if you can show me a better IDE than VS on any platform then I'll be impressed.
> "Better interoperation with other tools and filesystems (Linux plays much nicer with windows than windows plays with linux)."
The upcoming Linux subsystem for Windows 10 should go a long way in addressing that.
> "Less bugs in the APIs and development systems themselves (a result of open source enabling bugfixing independent of a vendor)."
Hmm, I don't think you can back that up. Let's put it like this, I've tried Linux multiple times, but I always come back to Windows, and generally speaking that's because of bugs I've found in Linux or Linux software. I have far fewer problems with Windows. Can you share some of the problems you've had with Windows?
> "Better system debug and development tools (eg. strace/dtrace/ktrace)."
Sure, I'll admit these tools are probably better than the Windows equivalents.
> "Almost every dev tool included in the distributions (no need to go download some dodgy .exe of tucows or where ever)."
You don't need to get dodgy dev tools, there are plenty of useful dev tools from Microsoft and other well known software companies.
> "More example open source code to reference and work with makes coding similar ideas less error prone."
Are you familiar with MSDN? If you knew how easy Microsoft makes it to become a proficient Windows coder, you wouldn't be saying that.
To be fair to you, there's one advantage of Unix OSes I think you missed, and that better networking tools (such as firewall software).
So based on that survey the statement that most devs don't use Windows anymore is incorrect.
Yes, but the post you replied to said "in a year or two".
Also, that doesn't answer my other question.
That's because I don't have an answer, it wasn't me who said "hopefully" :) As long as Linux is considered a first-class platform, I don't really care who's on top.
> 26.2% + 21.7% = 47.9%. So based on that survey the statement that most devs don't use Windows anymore is incorrect.
I said close to 50/50 so it's not false either, if you take in account the fact that there is probably some margin of error anyway.
> Other than better support for Unix command line tools, what makes OS X (or Linux) a better platform for devs than Windows 10
Maybe it depends what kind of developer you are/who you talk to, but most devs I interact with tend to live in the command line (and need proper package management as well) - things that Win10 does not do too well yet.
Pffft. "probably some margin of error anyway" is a gross understatement. It was 47.9% of the 40k developers who responded. Not even a half percent of the entire software development community :)
Enterprise devs make up the largest segment of pro developers and Windows rules the enterprise.
Win 10 also has the Ubuntu command-line now. I've been using it since beta and it's glorious. Macs can't compete with this - they don't even ship with new GNU utils and you'll have to fight with Apple if you want them because updates will break your setup.
Meanwhile it takes 5 minutes to get a modern Unix command-line in Windows.
I'm glad to say that I'm quite certain that your hopes of a non-Windows world will never be realized.
Nah, it's not going to happen. Especially because that "50/50" number isn't even close to being a true measurement.
The survey covered a whole ~40,000 people out of the ~11 million pro developers in the world. That's nothing.
The numbers also don't jive at all with the empirical evidence. Walk into any small, medium or large business IT shop that employs programmers and you'll find Windows more than any other OS. If they're running Linux it's in a VM on Windows.
Macs are still extremely rare for anyone outside of Mobile developers.
What do you think Enterprise devs use? Not Macs...
Why would I use this if I can't use it everywhere?