Regardless of weather it's true or not, they have a huge interest in saying so.
What's really crazy (even by today's US standards) is how Trump and his clique speak as if he annexed Venezuela and he can do whatever he wants.
It was discussed 100 times here already, but the damage to the myth of US as the 'good guy' that is immense. I personally see the US now, as the same that say China or Russia and have no intention of going there again, unless absolutely necessary. If you told me that some years ago, I would think you're crazy.
Large states (including the US) have been intervening in nearby countries since the beginning of time. Even for Latin America, this is a "typical" intervention for the US: Cuba, Panama, Grenada, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Haiti, Guatemala, on and on, all happened in the 20th century.
What's different this time is the total lack of effort (or ability to?) to construct a narrative justifying it.
20th century means that we’re talking at least 2.5 decades ago. That’s a long time. And for the most part, US foreign policy regarded much of those actions as folly even if they will never say that publicly.
You’re absolutely right with
your assessment but beyond that this is also a rolling back of the clock to thinking from decades ago.
Yes, but that was because there was a golden age when the west dominated the world without facing serious rivals. There was less need for interventions and the west was deluded (by wishful thinking) into regarding this as a permanent shift.
Even in the last 25 years the US has fought in Afghanistan, bombed Libya, ISIL held territory, Syria, blockaded Yemen and probably more.
The world today is going back to a cold war like rivalry between the US and China so we can expect both sides to use much the same tactics.
Yep, but folks love their veneer. The morals of the American people and that of the state department / industrial complex aren't the same.
Oddly in this case the US government seemed to do something that many Venezuelan expats support. We'll see if it helps the lives of regular Venezuelans at all.
Also a number of sci-fi from the last decade or two predicted or imagined the US in a war in Venezuela in the 2030's. It makes more sense to view it not for oil but more to keep Chinese and Russian influence out of the US's "backyard". Apparently both had been getting close to Maduro.
We also have to recognize that these particular narratives actually created some objectively positive accomplishments as well. That's what made the postwar US different than the postwar USSR. We can plainly see the results in some pretty well set up experiments (eg East Germany vs West Germany). It's very easy to criticize the failings of liberal American values and liberties looking from a vantage point where we get to take those values and liberties for granted.
... but now it seems as if people got bored of those lofty narratives, and the US can't even prevent its own domestic jihadis from overrunning the country with backwards fundamentalism. So now we're staring down their equivalent of Sharia law while they rally around regime-sponsored murderers ramping up sectarian violence.
The US is acting like Russia for sure, but China's modus operandi isn't really like that. China is much more interested in a rules-based world order than either country and will gladly fill the soft power vacuum the US is leaving
> What's really crazy (even by today's US standards) is how Trump and his clique speak as if he annexed Venezuela and he can do whatever he wants.
Setting aside what this does to the image of the US, this also just isn't grounded in reality. The US conducted a singular operation with a narrowly defined goal of extracting their president and his wife. They then declared that they were putting the Venuzuellan vice president in charge. I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but that looks a lot more like them getting behind a winner instead of dictating it.
Sure, the military operation was a tactical success; and will probably make Venuzuella more subservient in the near term. But I see no evidence we have done anything close to annexing them.
The US is literally dictating that certain things must happen as they prefer in Venezuela, or else. Venezuela has no agency as a sovereign nation as long as this is the case, ie. they've been annexed.
Not "client" as that sounds as though Venezuela asked the US to help them with something. I guess "satellite" works, and even so I'd still say they were annexed into that status.
If you get a passport in "annexed" Venezuela, it would be a US passport. It would be a US territory similar to Puerto Rico which is part of the US.
Passport is just an example but a good barometer. This implies in the federation of international states, Venezuala is an "independent" party, put recognized. Puerto Rico then by comparison has no such independence, this is all handled by the Federal government.
It's also fair to say that this is nothing new. US has a long history of messing about with the affairs of central and south american states. Which - fairly - has lead to the US paying the price by said states collapsing and then having the US absorbing tens of millions of individuals claiming asylum
> Trump and his clique speak as if he annexed Venezuela and he can do whatever he wants.
He did and can though. Venezuela is now a US colony, with its resources available to whomever is ready to invest. Heck, that's exactly what the article is saying.
> the damage to the myth of US as the 'good guy' that is immense.
People don't live under a rock. The US is an empire and has acted like it for at least 80 years if not more. The fantasy that the US is part of the good guys depends on how much you believe the propaganda.
The US has been annexing land almost since its foundation. Ask the original Native Americans. Or the people of Hawaii. Or Puerto Rico.
The US USP was essentially just its success as a consumer economy, with relative prosperity compared to Rest of World and nice things to buy.
And there used to be nominal free speech. You could criticise the government, and nothing would happen unless you became organised enough to start threatening capital, in which case you might well be murdered.
That's the good news. The bad news is that non-whites in the US have always had a much worse time of it, and the veneer of freedom has always been very thin for them.
Now the US has stopped pretending to be a creative economy and has decided not to hide its addiction to violent extraction.
I grew up in Eastern Europe. For 90% of people there at the time, US = paradise. Maybe it was propaganda, I don't know. Later in life I got travel a lot and meet a lot of Americans and for most, their moral and ethics are at the exact opposite of what the US is showing now.
In the former Yugoslavia maybe. But in the former USSR and Warsaw Pact countries, that isn’t even remotely true. The US was critical in supporting anti-USSR resistance, either directly with money or symbolically (“Tear down this wall”)
The image of the good guy USA had (at least in eastern Europe) has less to do with how they treated other countries and more with how they treated their own citizens.
It doesn't have to be a paradise in absolute terms to be a significantly better place. EE to the US was definitely an improvement for a very long time. Even if many other places already didn't see the US as good guys.
I don’t understand why this has been downvoted, it’s true that the US has done many interventions in the past based on vague rationale or simply by misleading public opinion. And it has always been a part of its’ state propaganda to make it look like they are on the good side, doesn’t mean they are though every time. The difference this time is that they didn’t even try that much to shape a proper narrative.
Of course their interest is to completely destroy all socialistic tendencies there, that's why Trump assured them to run the country from now on. They already invested in robbing their oil twice there, and where thrown out twice. Incredible stories, Chevron even had to change it's name then to get rid of the foul mouth press.
Consider how that will restrain the diplomatic and geopolitical options available to future US presidents, particularly those of the other party and it starts to seem quite strategic if not a major win for isolationism and Trump’s Monroe 2.0 agenda.
Enforcing immigration law by kidnapping or shooting US Citizens in the face, recruiting neo nazis, racial profiling, abusing authority (who would've guessed). You support this and equal this to "enforcing immigration law"? Are you implying that all of these are part of what "enforcing immigration law"? Why so nonchalantly support the dehumanization of people different to you?
What's really pathetic is seeing people brainwashed by political conglomerates. Believing any crap they're peddled on TV or by their oligarch of choice. So politics driven yet so politically ignorant, willingly being the peons, to their detriment.
What if that "anti american sentiment" is just a more sceptical mindset and there is actually alot to critize about trump/usa.
Want to play a game? I give you quotes/actions from trump and you have to reason why he still is eligible for office. Gosh, i'd wish this was a game show. The longer you make it, the more price money is to win. 'Grab'em by the facts!' and the top price is your very own 747 plane.
You're not even American. It's "prize" not "price".
He's eligible because he was elected by the People. End of story.
Thankfully he is (somewhat) doing the job we wanted him to. I wish he'd deport more illegal aliens faster though. We still have more than 10 million of them who all need to be deported.
You are making a quantitative argument with "X too many", not a qualitative one like "too severe crime". This reveals a certain thing about you. I guess you would make it far in that game show.
You may call them pathetic or hysterical but that doesn’t change the fact that the sentiment is real. The pace at which the current administration is burning through political capital that has been built over the last century is truly staggering and makes me wonder how much there will be left in three years time.
It is very funny that you compare US to Russia and China. China, compared to US, is a very peaceful state, with imperial ambitions nowhere near the american ones.
As for Russia, it fights for its existence after the west has effectively hired Ukraine as mercenaries in 2014 (if you want to be honest about it), Ukraine which had been for centuries an integral part of Russia.
Now tell me, what kind of connection US has with Venezuela besides the infinite greed of its capitalists? None of course. And neither had Iraq, Lybia, and a long list of other countries. Under the "good" "democrats".
And you dare to compare yourself to China and Russia..
"Fighting for their existence" and "mercenaries" lol.
The Ukrainian people wanted to align more with the EU. They have a sovereign country which isn't part of Russia. They had no plans to invade Russia and even if they had joined NATO they wouldn't have had because NATO is purely a defense platform and so diverse they can't even agree how to fold their napkins. It is not a credible threat to Russia unless Russia attacks them.
In Putin's own speech before the war he described the Ukrainian people as subservient to Russia, a people who have no legitimacy of their own. Just good enough to be a "crumple zone" for mother Russia.
Are you really surprised they chose to align with the EU instead?
And how is Russia fighting for it's existence in taking over a country that wasn't part of it?
Because news shouldn't be what is on the front page on HN, and I generally agree.
However, we're not living in normal times. US is speed running the book to become a dictatorship, or probably worse. And it's in no small part thanks to the tech community, which HN is all about.
Recent story about how Grok is used to produce naked pictures of any women or girl, including young kids, was killed very quickly on HN. I feel like a lot of people working in tech should take a good look in the mirror.
This is very relevant. A bunch of tech workers in the US are legal immigrants that, but for the safety that their visa provides, would be hunted by this inhuman organization.
I like the title - average food in the US is absolute shit - both in taste and from health perspective. It doesn't even taste like real food most of the time. Just like sugar with some flavour...
I don't get the 'For decades we've been misled' though - what guidance prioritiezed highly processed food ? From the look on both pyramids, they pretty much recommend the same things, in different proportions (more proteins now, less carbs) - but I don't think any reasonable guidance promoted highly processed sweet carbs before.
The thing I really struggle to understand, is what's their exit plan ?
He and his family, they always disregarded the law, but for guys like Marco Rubio ? He knows damn well the consequences of what they are doing and at some point they will need to pay for it, once they loose an election. Will he argue that he was just obeying orders, trying to limit the damage etc ?
Well he's riling up some international chaos, with Greenland and Mexico and whatnot. Wouldn't surprise me if some self-inflicted incident will be used as an excuse to "postpone" elections. From the article:
“So you say during the war, you can’t have elections,” Trump said to Zelensky at the time. “So let me just say, three and a half years from now—so you mean, if we happen to be in a war with somebody, no more elections? Oh, that’s good.”
Something like this more or less happened during the initial Israeli strike on Iran ?
From what I remember reading, they were able to gain air dominance not because Iranian air-defense was bad, but because it was put almost completely out of service for a brief period of time by people on the ground - be it through sabotage, cyber-warfare, drone attacks from inside, allowing the Israeli jets to annihilate them.
> not because Iranian air-defense was bad, but because it was put almost completely out of service for a brief period of time by people on the ground - be it through sabotage, cyber-warfare, drone attacks from inside,
Wouldn't that constitute air defense being "bad"? There are no "well technically it should have worked" in war. Failing to properly secure the air defense sites is bad air defense.
Not really. Ferrari is a great car, but with punctured tires or bad driver, it won't win any race.
Although I do agree, that in war only the final outcome is important. It's just that in this case it failed not necessarily because of technology, but because of humans.
A Ferrari with punctured tires isn’t a great car, it can’t drive. It’s an immobile, useless hunk of metal with a great engine and transmission, similar to disabled air defense systems: really expensive, useless hunks of metal.
Some certainly will, but not many I think. There are very few westerners outside of the US, who want to have anything to do with what the US are doing now.
It got upvoted quite quickly, then flagged. The way the algorithm works, if a hot topic is flagged for some time, the story will never show up on the front page.
I think discussions should be made immune from users flagging them if they have more than a certain amount of comments (50? 100?). If it's a problematic topic, then the administrator(s) should be able to flag it if they deem it necessary.
What's really crazy (even by today's US standards) is how Trump and his clique speak as if he annexed Venezuela and he can do whatever he wants.
It was discussed 100 times here already, but the damage to the myth of US as the 'good guy' that is immense. I personally see the US now, as the same that say China or Russia and have no intention of going there again, unless absolutely necessary. If you told me that some years ago, I would think you're crazy.
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